July 31, 2009

“With” vs. “For”

Nice to see you again. Follow me, @SydneyOwen. Thanks for being here!

It wasn’t until I went to SXSW that I realized the power one word can hold. I was talking to Ben Smithee of Spych Research (Ben, I’m totally loving then new website btw) when I said “Ooh, there’s a guy here from a company I’d like to work for!”

Ben said, “you mean with?”

Puzzled, I just had a blank look on my face.

“You mean, you want to work with them, not for them.”

Ben then enlightened me on the power of with vs. for. From that moment on, in any interview situation, in any random networking connection, in any follow-up email, I would say “and I look forward to working with you soon”. It makes sense, in conversation, to say with. But when talking about companies that could potentially hire you, it’s easy to say “ooh, I’d love to work for them!”

With vs. For is also a mindset. Just imagine how different the dynamics of a workplace can be if you’re working “with” people or working “for” people. Working with, you’re learning, engaging, you’re expressing your imaginative ideas at brainstorms and listening to those of others, you’re adding your value to a team. Working for, you’re likely running errands, being passed off tasks that your superior is “above” or are timid in expressing your ideas, because, after all, you are working for ______, not yourself.

Scratch that. I think it’s all about the tonality of the atmosphere. You can run errands with a smile if the atmosphere is supportive of that. Maybe that’s something we should all think about. Whether you’re the errand-assigner or the errand-runner, think about how it’s asked. If you say “hey, I know you’re swamped, but could you run down to _____ and pick up ____ for (insert project that you’re working on here)?” the runner recognizes that this errand is an important part of the team’s overall goal and will see the importance of the task at hand. If you shoot over an email that is condescending, then there is this tension, the “part of a team” mentality is gone, and now it feels like you’re working for that person, not with. 

I think, too, that a lot of the with vs. for mindset is part of the industry you’re in. Working with makes sense to me because I’m more of a creative (though that side of my talents hasn’t really been tapped into yet, which is another thought in itself) than a number-cruncher or statistic-creator. So I think in a creative environment, it only makes sense to say “with”. 

Fortunately, in my little world that I’m living in now, it’s a whole-lotta working “with”, not “for”. So that’s great. 

What do you think about with vs. for? Does it matter? Say it out loud. Does one sound better than the other? Does it depend on your environment? Are there industries that are more “with” or more “for”? What are they?

  • Brian Slattery
    Great post! I definitely think that it's important to the business and the employee (/candidate) alike for a sense of empowerment or collaboration to exist regardless of the personnel level. Two-way street on "For" vs. "With" ultimately btwn the two, no?

    Reminded me of similar re-calibration that SM is achieving by working "with" customers instead of "at". Interesting how some fundamentals that seemed so central to business early-on have been forgotten for several decades both from the personnel-side and the mktg/PR-side. Love the organizational tone of the post too. Made me think of "Putting the Public Back in PR" and how collaboration/SM are as much cultural shifts as technological.

    Whoa, long comment. Er, oops! Take care...
  • This is a great (but subtle) point of view. I like it. To me, "with" signifies a collaborative process when "for" is more about you. With means you want to work alongside your team and you will actually be part of something.
  • Love the observation. It's very subtle but has such a huge impact and difference in the dynamics of employer/employee relationship.

    I've been thinking of the new rules of running a business and this would definitely have to be included. No more "for"!
  • Syd!

    SXSW seems like it was ages ago :)
    I really think you captured the essence of what I was saying better than I could have! You really nailed it and have been doing so ever since SXSW.

    It's been pretty cool to see how much things have ramped up for you over these past months and it is always nice seeing someone deserving really "make it!"

    I'm just flattered that I was able to help and have been along for the ride!

    Ryan - Thanks! We'll catch up in TX sometime for sure!

    Syd - keep rockin' it, because that's what you do!
  • 1.) Couldn't agree more. I always try to position my conversations such that I'm working "with" a company as opposed to "for a company. And likewise I want a company that wants people to work WITH them, not FOR them.
    2.) That Ben guy is pretty sharp!
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